1.1 Inspirational Quote

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  Posted by CUNY Mindset Initiative on December 26, 2023 at 4:27 pm

  1.1 Inspirational Quote

  “Failure is a greater teacher than success.”​

  —  Clarissa Pinkola Estés

  💬  Discussion:

  1. Respond to this quote: Comment, reflect, agree/disagree, share a similar or contradictory quote, or provide an example to support or reject this quote. You may use text, video, audio, etc.
  2. Respond constructively and substantively (≥2 sentences) to another participant’s comments.

• Casandra Silva Sibilin (she/her/hers)

  Member

  February 8, 2024 at 9:42 am

  I think this is a great quote to reflect on and open discussion about growth mindsets. I agree and disagree!

  I agree at the surface level. The quote is about contrasting failure and success and embracing failure as a learning opportunity–very growth mindset! It also makes me think of research on neuroplasticity and popular advice which says that if you’re learning a new skill, such as playing an instrument, it’s not the getting it perfect but the making mistakes part that is most valuable for learning. (e.g.”Turning frustration into fuel“)

  Putting on my philosophical and analytical hat, though, I possibly disagree. What is “failure”? What is “success”? If failure is indeed a better teacher then maybe it’s better to use a new term for it. For us, and specially for students, is the term “failure” just too loaded and negative to be useful in this quote or in our teaching growth mindset?
  Carrie Gheith (she/her)

  Member

  March 25, 2024 at 12:27 pm

  Love this quote!  I totally agree though that the word “failure” is too loaded and subjective.  There is way too much emphasis on it and we should start looking at more appropriate “growth mindset” terminology.  Setbacks is a good one to consider for a start.
  Danesh

  Participant

  April 1, 2024 at 10:58 am

  I find the quote to be basically right, especially if we define failure as simply a challenge not (yet) overcome. The thought is that in order to succeed or overcome a worthwhile obstacle, you will probably have to fail at it first!
  Seth Lehman

  Member

  April 10, 2024 at 9:29 am

  I love the conversation on this thread so far! I think the quote is partially true: certainly we learn from failure/setbacks, but a key part of that learning process is getting feedback on what went wrong and applying appropriate strategies to move forward. I think of my college algebra students here: they could fail and fail again, but without reflecting on feedback, getting connected with tutoring and other resources, and receiving coaching as they try to apply the concepts again, they probably will not learn from their “failures”. So maybe failure is a greater teacher than success if we have the right coaches, community and support structure around us to promote learning.
  Faiza Peetz

  Participant

  April 11, 2024 at 12:58 pm

  Casandra, your point about rethinking the terminology we use is spot on. Words carry weight, and “failure” can sometimes be a heavy load to carry, especially for students who are still shaping their self-concept and resilience.
  Faiza Peetz

  Participant

  April 11, 2024 at 12:59 pm

  Carrie, I’m with you on exploring alternative terms like “setbacks” to frame challenges in a more growth-oriented light. It’s all about the narrative we build around our experiences, isn’t it?
  Faiza Peetz

  Participant

  April 11, 2024 at 1:00 pm

  Danesh, your take on redefining failure as an “unchallenged obstacle” adds a dynamic twist to the conversation. It’s like saying every misstep is just an unfinished sentence in our success story.
  Faiza Peetz

  Participant

  April 11, 2024 at 1:00 pm

  Seth, you bring home the importance of the support system in learning from these setbacks. It’s one thing to fall, but another to have the right tools and encouragement to get back up. Your analogy with college algebra students not only highlights the role of feedback but also the critical need for a nurturing environment that turns setbacks into comebacks.
  Faiza Peetz

  Participant

  April 11, 2024 at 1:01 pm

  What do you all think about integrating this discussion into our teaching practices? Could we perhaps start by sharing personal stories of overcoming setbacks with our students to model this growth mindset?
  Kevin Kolack, Ph.D.

  Member

  April 12, 2024 at 1:39 pm

  They “borrowed” this quote from me (I think- I’ve definitely used it in posts for years), so I’m already using it in class. 😉 That being said, I certainly admit to not getting straight As in chemistry as an undergrad, beginning with the first day of class. I also am incessantly saying things like “this is how the subject was presented to me, and THIS is how I’m presenting it to you, since I didn’t really get it when I was taught it the first time.” I like the reframing of “failure” as an unmet challenge. I also have a quote from Chris Hardwich (admittedly not the best source) which says, in effect, that people who have never been challenged are either boring, or are being dishonest.
  Deborah Greenblatt, Ph.D. (she/her)

  Participant

  April 17, 2024 at 11:46 am

  I also use the quote “Problems are just opportunities that haven’t presented themselves.” I am not sure who said it, but I think that starting without the word “failure” can be better for many people’s skepticism with this work.
  I also like “Working hard is important, but there is something that matters even more: Believing in yourself.” That’s from Harry Potter. I find that confidence play a HUGE role in mindset work. That also goes with “Help will always be given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it.” Our students need to know they are not to suffer in silence but should reach out for strategies and resources if they feel stuck.
  Casandra Silva Sibilin (she/her/hers)

  Member

  April 17, 2024 at 7:53 pm

  I like to share with my students that when I first took an intro. to philosophy course I had a hard time understanding how to do a philosophy paper – it was so different than an English paper! But the teacher had made sure to include a short book (resource) on precisely this challenge and it became a very useful guide… along with her teaching… and ended up doing well in the final paper. More importantly, perhaps, the process taught me that it’s OK to feel a bit lost when approaching a new academic discipline. 🙂

   
  Denise Sands Baez (she/her)

  Member

  April 22, 2024 at 11:47 am

  Failure can be quite instructive, but it’s not necessarily a “greater” teacher than success.  There are some lessons that can be learned only through failure, but there are many others that can be learned only through success.  (That’s the problem with blanket statements; their lack of nuance makes them inappropriate sources of wisdom.)  As several others have pointed out, failure is likelier to be an effective learning tool when the failure is properly framed as an opportunity for learning and help (if needed) is offered in identifying the steps needed to avoid a repetition of the failure.  This is part of the reason why what we do is important.  Most of us do not have the panache of a Thomas Edison, who framed his lack of success in reaching a goal as: “I have not failed.  I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.”
  Denise Sands Baez (she/her)

  Member

  April 22, 2024 at 12:02 pm

  As an Academic Advisor, I advise students who’ve failed courses; some are in danger of flunking out and others have already been dismissed.  In our discussions and in advising them on framing their appeals for readmission, I tell them that they should tell only enough of their story so that the appeals committee knows that they (the students) have identified the factors that derailed their progress toward success.  The primary emphasis ALWAYS is on what is going to be different when they return.  While I sometimes may mention some part of my personal experiences (including challenges/shortcomings/failures) as part of establishing empathy/letting the students know that they are being heard, I never spend more than a few moments on my own experiences.  The sessions are about them, not me.
  J. Elizabeth Clark (she/her/hers)

  Participant

  May 2, 2024 at 11:34 am

  Hi Denise,

  I love your focus on framing what the failure means and how we learn from it. You’re right that failure as failure, per se, does not teach us anything. But failure understood in the pursuit of a goal is more helpful. I love the Thomas Edison edit to this quote activity!